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Poster: Skobud Date: Feb 22, 2013 6:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Say "it" aint so

I dont even know where to start with this unavailing post....I'll just say if there ever was a post to prove my point about "It" - here it is.

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Poster: BornEasement Date: Feb 22, 2013 8:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Say 'it' aint so

what's "it"?

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Poster: Skobud Date: Feb 22, 2013 9:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Say 'it' aint so

“It” is everything that is missing from what you wrote. Your post is proof that words on a page are just that - and life experience cannot be recreated through aimless dogmatizing.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Feb 22, 2013 1:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Say 'it' aint so

I get that one someone posts it is a public statement, but aren't unavailing and aimless dogmatizing on route to using a flamethrower to light a cig?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPXVGQnJm0w

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Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 22, 2013 3:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: unavailing, aimless dogmatizing

Ha--I think SB captures my efforts here beautifully with that quip: "...unavailing, aimless dogmatizing..."

Don't ya think? Seriously; I am proud to be described in those terms...my seven yrs of work here are precisely in that spirit.

;)

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Feb 22, 2013 3:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: unavailing, aimless dogmatizing

Shoot. Isn't he refering to BornEasement's post?

But, if he is referring to you... of course!

Seriously, I don't know. I have laid out of the 'It' conversation. I did think at one time that if you didn't see a show that you could never really get 'it'. (All those '88 shows I saw were filled with 'it'. 'It' refering to something else though.) And then I got to know this LiA guy...

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Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 23, 2013 7:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: unavailing, aimless dogmatizing

Sorry, assumed you knew EVERY post here is about me.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Feb 23, 2013 3:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: unavailing, aimless dogmatizing or Posts as I Ching

And there is the rub. Every post is really about me. ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_E3c_Zje6w

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Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 22, 2013 1:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Say 'it' aint so

There ain't no "it"; "it" is a myth...SB, bless him, is convinced that he found "it", BUT as my irrefutable argumentation established, by his own logic, he only found a worn-out, highly degraded, bloated Jerry version of "it" sometime after their downfall (post 73 or so).

;)

[Seriously, if "It" exists, by his own defn SB missed the real It, as that was the Pigpen version (Jerry said so too); my two brothers saw them many times between 66 & 69, and felt that the early version of It was a completely different band than what we saw together in the mid-70s, and I think we'd all agree they had a point. How come "It" died with Jerry? Who made that call? My brothers say It died with Pig, so there..."it" is a different story, everyone here, you included, have your own version of "it" Got it?]

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Poster: BornEasement Date: Feb 22, 2013 4:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Say 'it' aint so

Gotcha. I really can't express how jealous I am of folks that got to see the real deal live and in action though. Its akin to a myth/legend to fans of my generation. I never meant to imply that listening to this band on headphones gives anyone more than superficial access to the complete asskickery that must have been on display at a dead show in their heyday. (or even in the eighties. sorry... the temptation to add editorial comments knocking Brent is a little overwhelming. On that note: how did people react to changes like that? Did groups of fans "leave the bus" if the sound of the band took a turn they didn't like? I could even imagine the way the band sounded in 71 or 72 striking some fans as less "out there" than the primal stuff before, and driving the more persnickity listeners away. Was everyone always on board with how the "search for the sound" went down?)

I realize now that what I wrote might have struck some people as an attack on the dead's fanbase... I didn't mean it that way at all. The "dead culture" I was talking about has more to do with kids I know who wear stealies to mark themselves out as "free spirits" rather than fans. Look up "grateful dead" on tumblr if you dare. That should give you an idea of what I'm talking about. The parking lot scene, by contrast, sounds awesome.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 22, 2013 6:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Say 'it' aint so

Ha--well, SB will be glad to hear it...ie, it sounds like you like the idea of "it". I only keep ragging about it since I do think there is a lot of "myth" to "it" (don't get me wrong, myths are VERY impt social constructs).

And, I do believe that people such as you and LiA can get much of it in a derivative fashion; last, I do think there is a problem with an ever-changing "it" (the logic to my point about the it with Pig being v different from the it with Brent, etc.).

In any event, as to your question, at the time I was going, we saw Mickey return (74 to 75) and then K & D depart and Brent arrive (79-80), and we really didn't view it as a big deal...we did in fact think at the time that "it" was largely unaffected by such personnel shifts, given the significance of Jerry & Phil (we did view them as central), and the fact that we'd weathered such changes prior (yikes...I know that just deflated my pt with SB...rats).

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Feb 23, 2013 9:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Say 'it' aint so

BE - I doubt anyone took it as an attack, we've got thicker skins that that. I'll try to answer your question, although it's only one viewpoint ...

I was hooked in college (1973) when a new friend brought over his ever-growing vinyl collection, which included everything from Anthem to Wake of the Flood, as well as NRPS. I loved it - on the bus, in a matter of speaking, after one listen to Bertha from Skullfuck. Listened and partook deeply, many college hours. Life however, got in the way - homework, girlfriend, job, marriage etc. I still listened, bought records... never went to a show until Jan 1979. It was at Nassau Coliseum, my seats were lousy (2nd tier, stage left, looking down on Keith) and the sound was miserable. This is very near the end of the Godchaux era, and he played pretty badly to these ears, hammering repetitively unimaginative chords all night, since that's about all I could hear. (Very average show - see the link below.) The crowd on the floor seemed to be having a great time - clouds of smoke, beach balls, etc - but they didn't seem to pay much attention to the music. The concert experience was far below my expectations- it barely resembled the music I loved. Some time passed, I bought Go to Heaven and didn't think much of it, still the least played in my collection; then Reckoning, which was far better, just for the acoustic Dead, although the guitars sound like rubber bands; but after "In the Dark" I was definitely "off the bus" for other musical pursuits.

I think a great deal depends on which era you get "imprinted" with - for me, that would be 71-73 (though I love 74-77 also), for others the 80s, a select few enjoy only 67-69... and that's all right. Today I try to keep an open mind and find something to enjoy in every show no matter what.

For me, "it" has always been about the music. ( Note the small 'it' - according to Skobud I never got the big IT, but I really get it, be it mythical or not. It's my "it" not his anyway.) The last several years I've discovered how much music I missed at the time, and I'm eternally grateful to the tapers, the band, the Archive, for making it so available for me to enjoy. (I'm back on the bus) Grateful for this community too. I live the music - I play and sing it, listen and study, commute with it... My wife still thinks I'm nuts.


http://archive.org/details/gd79-01-11.gatto.kempka.308.sbeok.shnf

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Poster: Skobud Date: Feb 24, 2013 7:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: "It" lives

I think the idea that "it" has a different definition for everyone speaks volumes. It is a wonderful topic. All I said at the very beginning, 3(?) years ago was this:

If you went and saw them live, regardless of whether you liked the show or not, you have experienced "it".

If you did not see them live for whatever reason, you cannot know "it"

"It" is the experience of attending ANY Grateful Dead show live.

My point(which caused all of the commotion)is that you cannot truly understand the Grateful Dead experience (which by Borneasment's thesis IS Grateful Dead culture) without having seen them live.

I know this pisses people off. It's one man's opinion. If you went, you know what I mean.

It's about life experience making us the people we are. It has nothing to do with knowledge. I totally understand how polarizing this is.

I absolutely believe "It" - the actual live concert experience - is fucking huge. William and others disagree. So be it.


-By the way John, I dig the Buffalo show at Shea's that took place a few days later after Nassau.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Feb 22, 2013 5:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Say 'it' aint so

This isn't a particularly remarkable statement, but once Brent died it was never the same for me. I did not even bother to go to most of the September '90 MSG shows (but I did get talked into going on the 19th which turned out to be one of the best shows I ever attended) and traded my Europe tics for KB. I wasn't (and am still not) necessarily a Brent fan, but I took his death hard. I only saw six shows from 9-19-90 on.

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Feb 23, 2013 12:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Say 'it' aint so

How do you know whether or not it was the same if you stopped going to shows? Why stop if you had just seen a kick assshow in NY?